suddenlynaked: Interesting films

Chrisb (

suddenlynaked) wrote,
@ 2008-01-25 21:23:00

Interesting films
I know I should have been doing PSA's for the big show on Feb 16th, but I got distracted by this film.
Zeitgeist
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

I also highly recommend "Money as debt"

Unfortunately there are a lot of factual errors in "Zeitgeist," especially with what I know about Egyptian gods and some others, but that doesn't discount the general thesis of the film: basically religion is used as one of many tools to control populations, and continual war is pushed on us fools by the international bankers and military industrial complex who profit mightly from them. He gets about 90% of his facts right as far as I can tell.

A few holes he filled that I would like to check for errors: his claim that Dick Cheney was actually overseeing the NORAD excercises that were taking place in 9/11 - which included a hijacking scenario similar to what is claimed to have happen. Another: how the crash of 1929 was orchestrated by bankers and then EXACERBATED by them.

More and more, to my thinking at least, the evidence of 9/11 says to me that it was Dick Cheney's Reichstag Fire. Cheney is the one who goes back to Nixon, who has the "experience" in government.

Does all this matter? People are mostly clear on pointing out the problems, but solutions are pretty hard to come by. This guy basically says the solution is to kill your television, know yourself and love people, wake up and renew your relationship with the natural world - all stuff I write about continually - but I think it's going to take a little more than that to deal with money as debt, the military industrial complex and the stranglehold mindfulck madness of religion and the omnipresent view of ourselves and other humans as "consumers."

All we've got is love right? Kinda. Moving toward a sustainable culture is so multifaceted - I used to think the biggest part of the solution was population, that there are just too many people, but the world population about half what it is now, when the Federal Reserve was started.

I keep going back to the idea that "winning" is living the life you dream of living regardless of the lunatics - dance naked, love who you love, say it out loud, live as free people and lead by example and yeah that's part of it. But one thing is certain; we're going to live through some very interesting times here in the New Amerikan Century and there is no place on the planet where anyone is really going to be able to sit it out.

Long term problems like over-population, starvation and the over-consumtion of finite resources are ultiumately self-correcting, but living through that - you know we ought to be able to do better than this....

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	stardragan 2008-01-26 06:14 pm UTC (link)
	I have a copy of the film but haven't watched it yet. Once a year I read "The Fifth Sacred Thing" by Starhawk to remind myself of what could be. Not only in terms of what could happen with our government & religion but what the possiblities could be if we valued what is important and made that the priorities instead of money. (Reply to this)

Money As Debt

sgoilear
2008-01-26 08:59 pm UTC (link)

There are some glaring holes in reality -- several regulations from the Fed and SEC (for public banks/holding companies) are ignored. Not that I expect a CPA or PhD in Economics to be behind an "anti-banking" production, but they should conduct serious research. Sure, sure, at the end, they dismiss it in the credits with "this is meant as an introduction" -- but in the post-Enron era, there are much better checks and balances.

Like Michael Moore, the creator has a good idea about an issue, but fabricates or misrepresents facets of the issue, which weakens the message. I mean, a typical MM movie has 50 to 60+ errors ... but since a 20 minute documentary wouldn't make him rich, he pads some good insights and research with false fluff. I lament more that he *could* make a GOOD documentary and chooses not to, than that we're on opposite sides of most issues.

Back to M.A.D. - ultimately, if we collectively stopped believing we weren't a successful person without owning a bunch of stuff, and living in a big house ... we wouldn't be in the situation in which we find ourselves. But we all collectively buy [pun intended] into owing cars, big houses, and gadgets. I was so struck during separate visits to the UK, that many urban-based 'normal' people/families WILL NEVER OWN A HOME, because they could never afford one -- they'll rent until the day they die ... and aren't too upset about it.

I agree it's a silly idea that the government would make interest payments to private banks, on the money it uses. However, the government can and does add to the money supply by printing more money (fiat as opposed to hard currency supply). It's been a not-so-back-door way for administrations to support additional government spending since we left the gold standard.

I just want to abolish the Federal Reserve, return to a hard currency standard (back it with gold, silver, something more than confidence in bank or government existance), and curb runaway government spending (military *and* social) ... is that so much for a capitalist-environmentalist to ask? =)

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Re: Money As Debt

suddenlynaked
2008-01-26 09:25 pm UTC (link)

I'm sure about the gold standard - it's certainly been used to manipulate the market enough that I'm not sure that it's better than the pure fiat money.

Are there really fundamental checks and balances post Enron? I don't have the data, but anything that's happend post Enron has happened under Cheney / Bush and I just find it hard to believe that W would sign off on anything that would truly have any meaningful regulatory effect.

The stuff issue is a certainly a big one for me - I often feel more owned by the stuff I use than me owing it - and it's time to purge. But some of the things, like owning a car are infrastructure issues. More later gotta run!

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Re: Money As Debt

sgoilear
2008-01-27 01:36 am UTC (link)

Regulatory: Oh yeah, a LOT more. It's created a large demand for CPAs (which works out nicely, as my sweetie *is* one). The new rules came into effect owing partially to voter outrage, and partially to protect other mega-business entities from being market-undermined by a 'rogue' element (like Enron). While Bush and Cheney are powerful, they're not omnipotent (thank GOODNESS). More cynically, it makes it easier to track the financial do-ings of most companies, which benefits the rich -- a class into which Cheney falls.
(This more accurate representation of financial activity/health of public companies is also good for non-rich people -- but that's less likely to influence/impress the rich themselves.)

Money backing: Foremost, I'd prefer a hard asset to back money. Secondly, confidence in a government (can't believe I'm saying that!) to back money. Least favorable is confidence in a bank/banking system -- so while people consider the US dollar an anchor for world currencies ... I will have to agree that much of the "money" created in our economy, is effectively, at the whim of somewhat-but-not-really-heavily-regulated private banking institutions.

Stuff/car/infrastructure: Add in to the mix, ecology and energy dependence. Nothing seems so ironic as some environmentalists who decry fossil fuels as evil (or who see our Middle East interference as purely for oil) ... and who drive gas-guzzlers. A non-LJ, pagan friend comes to mind -- she's full-bore on the global warming train, yet drives her SUV to work, despite the fact that her urban home and urban work are both within short distance of major bus routes, which can accomodate her work schedule. =(

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fact checking

rev_dr_ace
2008-01-26 10:44 pm UTC (link)

Apparently Zeitgeist does at least document their sources quite thoroughly on their web site. I haven't had the time to read through the transcript or check out more than a couple of their sources yet, but at least they're there to check.

As far as solutions, it's hard to know where to begin - the problems run deep. I think the best we can do each work to change a few things that need changing, and hope that the movie is appropriately titled: Zeitgeist, an idea whose time has come. Maybe it's steam engine time for bringing down people who use religion to further their own power, to bring people who will trade lives for political advantage to justice, and to create a sustainable economy. If so, we won't really see the change happening... but one morning we'll wake up and realize that things are different.

One of the most important things to change is to put "radical" ideas into the public consciousness: like the idea that we can have an equitable health care system that provides better quality care than we get today; or the idea that a "family" is not necessarily a man and a woman and their kids; or the idea that the true cost of logging old growth forest is the cost of replacement: about 2000 years' rent on that plot of land; or the idea that pleasure is GOOD and life is just too short to be anything less than a hedonist.

Me, I'm just trying to build some tools to support a health care system that has equity and quality of care as its two unalienable rights. It's a tiny piece of the puzzle, but that's one of the things people are good at: building a whole greater than the work of any individual.

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Zeitgeist - based on the transcript, part 1

sgoilear
2008-01-27 02:39 am UTC (link)

I own more books on Ancient Egypt (both historical, and mythical) than are credited in the sources section -- while I don't have most of the ones specifically cited, I have a decent body of knowledge of the subject.

The points from the transcript (Part One) that are contradictory to what I've read, or are in a minority opinion:
* Horus referred to as a messiah of any sort
* Horus born December 25 (never read this before)
* Horus' birth signaled by a star in the East
* Three kings went to visit the newborn Horus
* Horus was a teacher at age 13
* Horus had 12 disciples
* Horus was baptized (in any sense of the word) at 30 (or ever)
* Horus had a ministry
* Horus was called {insert most of the titles given him}
* Horus was betrayed by Typhon (really, an Egyptian god, betrayed by a Greek one?!}. Betrayal requires trust to first exist. The closest thing I can imagine it to argue that Set, angered by Horus having ripped away one of Set's testicles, got back at him by raping him.
* Horus was crucified
* Horus buried and resurrected three days later

I didn't see any real primary sources in the list -- mostly occult or religious texts which rely on someone else's translation, to make jumps in logic, when then the Z. creator uses to make more leaps in logic. It's almost as good as taking King James' politically-mistranslated Bible to be an accurate representation of old Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek sources.

Honestly, Mithra is a better drum to beat -- Son/Sun god, Dec 25th as birthday, star in the east, 12 disciples (thought to be metaphorical, and refer to the 12 signs of the zodiac), similar titles, death/resurrection, and I believe virgin birth as well.

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	Re: Zeitgeist - based on the transcript, part 1 rev_dr_ace 2008-03-03 08:08 pm UTC (link)
	For the record: Mithras was not born of a virgin, but of a rock. It's close. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ihgreenman 2008-01-28 01:11 am UTC (link)
	Another thing is that about the time that JC was mythologized/born/whatever is that the theme of the dying and reborn god was in vogue. Yes, it is a common theme across cultures, but IIRC it was particularly popular right around then. Heh. The thought occurs that the worst thing one god can curse on another is: "May your worshipers have a Council of Nicene!" (Reply to this)

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